The Canon Cripple Hammer is pure “conspiracy theory” says Canon director
Sep 14, 2020
John Aldred
John Aldred is a photographer with over 25 years of experience in the portrait and commercial worlds. He is based in Scotland and has been an early adopter – and occasional beta tester – of almost every digital imaging technology in that time. As well as his creative visual work, John uses 3D printing, electronics and programming to create his own photography and filmmaking tools and consults for a number of brands across the industry.
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Johnnie Behiri at CineD recently interviewed Canon Product Management Director of Image Communication Business at Canon Europe (that’s a mouthful!), Katsuyuki Nagai to talk about some fo the EOS R5 and EOS R6 overheating issues – and the limitations imposed on the camera.
Naturally, the topic of whether Canon was intentionally crippling their DSLR and mirrorless cameras so as not to impact their pro cinema line cameras came up. As one would expect, Mr Nagai not only refuted the accusations but said they belong “on the conspiracy theory pile”.
A number of different aspects of the EOS R5 and R6 were discussed in the interview, including why Canon even chose to pursue 8K in the first place. His answer was a simple “Someone has to be first”. And, well, yeah, I supposed they’re right. Canon made the first DSLR to offer 1080p video with the 5D Mark II. And they were very quick to jump on 4K in 2012 with the EOS 1D C.
Someone has to push the boundaries as to what is possible. It’s worth noting that new games consoles support 8K and we are seeing more brands pushing 8K TVs, which will be in the homes of many users in the near future more so than 4K was back in 2012.
But the 8K in the EOS R5 is seen by many as a bit of a gimmick, given the limitations placed on one’s ability to shoot it. You can only do for short periods (although a recent firmware increased the duration slightly) and once it overheats, you’ve really no idea how long you’re going to have to wait before you can do it some more.
There is much evidence that the time limits placed on the EOS R5 seem to be down to simple timers and not the actual recorded temperatures inside the camera – given how easy it is to reset and trick the camera into shooting more. Johnnie asked Mr Nagai flat out about accusations that Canon is purposefully limiting its EOS mirrorless cameras so as to not impact its professional EOS cinema line.
This is an accusation we’ve seen before which belongs on the conspiracy theory pile. It is simply not a sensible business idea as users are more likely to switch to competitor systems than buy a much more expensive camera to get a certain feature.
There are factors that govern what a camera can and cannot do, the primary of which is the components used based on the cost of the camera. Making a camera that can do everything would require higher resolution viewfinders, bigger buffers, faster processors to handle the data, faster card buses to write to cards etc, all components which typically cost more.
It is important that we evaluate the primary customer for each product and decide what features would be required by that typical user. We do not ‘cripple’ our cameras, our aim is always to focus the product better to the typical user.
Essentially, Mr Nagai says that it’s a limitation of the hardware used inside the cameras. And to increase their capabilities would increase their price. There are also design factors that need to be taken into account. The EOS R mirrorless range are hybrid cameras, designed to be great for stills and decent enough at video. They’re not video cameras.
But, that’s the final word on the “Cripple Hammer” from Canon, so you can take your tin foil hats off now.
Head on over to CineD to read the complete interview.
[via CineD]
John Aldred
John Aldred is a photographer with over 25 years of experience in the portrait and commercial worlds. He is based in Scotland and has been an early adopter – and occasional beta tester – of almost every digital imaging technology in that time. As well as his creative visual work, John uses 3D printing, electronics and programming to create his own photography and filmmaking tools and consults for a number of brands across the industry.
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40 responses to “The Canon Cripple Hammer is pure “conspiracy theory” says Canon director”
A Camera that stops working for an uncalculatable time is simply a no go for photo professionals. And what does Canon think would be the customers for a camera rated at 4400 € ? ??♂️
Canon released the 1D C in 2012 for $15,000(with internal 4K)
Camera users said “that’s too expensive”,
Canon releases the R5 in 2020 for $3,899(with internal 8K and better 4K than the 1D C)
Camera users are still finding ways to complain about it.
Thanks for spavin again with the same message all over.
The recording time in 8K is zero minute if you take 60 pictures in a fridge.
Zero minute, the camera shut itself down.
So, no, they did not deliver any usable 8K recording.
So, in your mind, a fire won’t burn if it’s below 40F degrees outside? Maybe my pit defies the laws of physics.
Wait, Did I says something like this?
If a camera overheats after one hour in a fridge taking only one picture per minute.
I will not consider Canon did a great job on thermal management.
Do you?
Saying “The recording time in 8K is zero minute if you take 60 pictures in a fridge.” is like saying a fire won’t burn in fridge like temperatures.
What you don’t understand about that clickbait fridge video, other than science, is that the 8K mode is engaged, aka ready to shoot, even when in photo mode. If the user that made the video knew how to use his camera properly it wouldn’t have overheated.
From the clickbait article “After 30 minutes I very briefly switched into 8K video mode for just 4 seconds, to see how much time remained on the “cripple clock” – then back into stills mode.”
So the whole time it’s sitting there it’s still in 8K mode in the background. But you can keep using that clickbait test as data if you’d like, over at lens rentals they measured the heat the camera makes and it’s more than a fridge can handle. No one puts fresh cooked hot food into the fridge, that’s how diseases start.
Please let me know in which device, temperature is based on time and not actual sensor reading?
Please let me know which 3C device need more than one hour to cool down to be used again, stored in a freezer when turned off battery removed, lens removed.
The R5 is based on actual temperature. It achieves a temp of more than 140F when shooting 8K video and doesn’t have a fan. Looks like Canon did the smart thing and implemented a shut down when it gets that hot since any temp that high, without a fan for cooling, can corrupt electronic components such as the memory cards you’re shooting with.
Most 3C devices have fans. The R5 does not. Would you like the link to the lensrentals article where they themselves measure the heat the R5 creates or do you wanna keep arguing with me?
Because if you’d seen the lensrentals article you’d know the overheating is real and the only reason you’re still being negative is because you’re being paid to do so.
Not sure you understand that I’m the one you found out the timer hack by pushing back the time.
Lensrental is analyzing only heat transfer; there is nothing about heat sensor and timing. All relationship with software heat management is coming only from your mind.
They even wrote “saving to SD cards when possible (not an answer for 8K video, I get that)” which is not true. You can record 8K on a SD card in 8 bits. This article is perfect, but only see the heat creation at 23C. Nothing about shooting at freezing temperature with a one hour recovery time.
Please check my profile and follow to the blog section for more about my story.
It all actually happen on magic lantern, a website you should check.
Stay in deny if you like.
Lensrental analyzed internal heat measurements and different heat readings around the camera. The memory card, which was inside the unit, passed 130F. If you were to touch that it would burn you instantly. Other people, like your EOSHD friend, have measured, thanks to other peoples research, more than 140F internally while shooting 8K. It overheats, plain and simple. Sorry you wanna spend Civic money and get a Ferrari out of it. Maybe you shouldn’t be “hacking” cameras since you already don’t know how thermal readings work. By the way, how many cameras are you willing to replace when your “loyal followers” brick all their cameras?
How come the sensor is on 4K mode reading as it was recording if I’m using Wifi-menu only?
How this is right?
That I do not know, Canon needs to fix that. But it is the reason the fridge test doesn’t work.
“So the whole time it’s sitting there it’s still in 8K mode in the background. “
Ok, Let’s follow your logic.
Because the camera live view is on, the sensor is read as same as recording 4K HQ and so overheat, even in a fridge and need an hour to cool down. The camera body is a little warm.
Now; why when recording at room temperature with an external recorder, I have unlimited recording time in 4K HQ this time?
Is the demand from the processor/screen/sensor not even higher than just waiting in live view (with zero video recording)? This time, my camera body is so hot that I can’t even touch it.
The controversy is not to say a camera overheat or not. It’s the way limitation have been implemented.
Because the memory cards reach more that 130F when inside the camera during 8K recording. No one, to my knowledge, has measured the temps at any 4K level so you talking specifically about 4K is irrelevant. The camera overheats. With actual temperature readings as proof. Who ever is paying you must give a bonus for purposefully spreading false information. Here’s the lensrentals article since you haven’t read it yet.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2020/09/investigating-the-canon-r5-heat-emission/
Wait, you do not understand the test.
When playing in the menu (So with 4K preview ruining in background), there is no card in the camera.
In the external camera recording there is no card in the camera too.
In one case, you are shut done in about an hour, the camera body is just warm, you need to wait an hour.
In another case, you can record forever and the camera body is super warm.
Lens rental did not run this test.
A camera that need one hour to shoot again after, at max 20 mn of recording.
Please let me know if you saw this kind of stunt anywhere before?
So you think you could pay Honda Civic prices and buy a Ferrari?
Have you seen the sheet? You know, the one that lets everyone know, before having a camera in hand, that it’ll overheat? If you can buy a Red why are you worried about what Canon is doing?
Nice work Nick from Canon.
Now there’s another conspiracy theory.
The sheet never said I will have 0 minute of recording if I’m taking picture prior to video.
It says hybrid, so I should be able to switch one to another.
Do you notice how ridiculous your support for Canon look these days?
Do you have an R5? What video mode was YOUR camera in while shooting photos? The camera is made to be ready to shoot video the second you switch it to video so if you have the 8K mode set, well there’s your problem.
I am not saying that’s right I am just letting you know the technical side of the camera. Hopefully Canon fixes that with the next firmware update.
Nick, Are you trying to get as many down-vote as possible?
I don’t care about down votes. I care about the truth, so if that gets me down votes because that’s what you’re paid to do, so be it.
The truth is that changing the time let you shoot immediately after the overheat lock down. It’s a fact.
(You can check my findings on my blog, There is a link in this article or you can follow my profile)
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If the heat sensor will not be happy with this, they will stop you from recording again. They will tell you on boot, or during recording.
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But no, nothing happens during 25 minutes, not one sensors is reacting.
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And if you are using my hack; you can do it again and again without any sensors stopping you if you are at low temperature. This is true on the R5 and the R6, even with latest firmware. When you do it under higher temperatures; The camera stop for real (and for good). You only need to wait few minute to let it cools down.
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The camera at this time is acting exactly as if plugged to an external recorder.
The heat sensors are very happy with this. Or, at least, Canon designed them to let you record. The “external unlimited recording time” is what triggers all the anger.
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Canon implement 2 heat managements systems.
One with sensors and another one with timer.
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The sensor one can’t be reset. The timer can.
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The real heat sensors are priority and actually shut done the camera in Picture mode also. At this time, it’s a different logo displayed on the screen.
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The timer is another layer of protection added for obscure reason. This is where all the conspirators or real critics are.
There is not one single device that have such layer of usage time management.
.
One reason possible reason for this extra layer is that Canon engineers found that the heat sensor were not implemented at the right location during development. The camera actual temperatures being higher than the closet sensor. It may be a last minute add-on to save time and avoid a full electronic board redesign. Competition is fierce and loosing one extra month or more may not be possible with the A7S3 around the corner.
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The other reason is a commercial choice to protect more expensive camera that do video.
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I let you choose which one you prefer, but I don’t feel comfortable in either ways.
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Again, all electronic device mostly have overheat control. This is absolutely necessary.
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A time based layer of heat control is absolutely unheard and unseen until the Canon R5 and R6.
A recovery time of more than an hour whatever the external condition is also completely new.
.
Is Canon so good at heat management that they beat all competition designs?
Are we gonna this implemented in many other device soon?
I have seen the hack that EOSHD is claiming to have found, guess you’re how he found it. Not a smart thing to pull the battery without a proper shutdown, confusing the camera, and creating higher than necessary temps when doing this method will surely brick users cameras eventually. All you’re doing is confusing the programming and damaging the camera. You want 8K buy a Red or a blackmagic, quit expecting to get a Ferrari when you pay Honda prices.
“Not a smart thing to pull the battery without a proper shutdown,”
Well, 100% of construction time-lapse are using this method to sleep between picture and save battery power.
I currently have one where I cut the power and restore it 25 time per day.
The camera is there almost 2 years. I never lost or had any damage data or camera.
It’s the way every long time time-lapse is done when using DSLR.
My website is full of time-lapse system using different controller and all re using this method.
Yeah believe Canon there is no way they simply didn’t put the Canon color science in the R5 just to cripple it. It was just to expensive to put it in. Don’t look at the 90 or the Ti series. Please just believe them.
The work of C-Anon
“Our company is not behind any kind of conspiracy” the company said.
I’m not the tin foil hat type, but come on.
Few Data, information, knowledge…
#️⃣The camera will overheat only when playing with the Wi-Fi menu. With zero pictures taken, your max video recording time will be zero after an hour with the menu on.
#️⃣The camera will overheat in a fridge by taking a picture every minute during an hour. The body is not even warm.
#️⃣The camera will not overheat if you are using an external recorder, but will be extremely hot to touch.
Insight
Removing the battery for few second after changing the date is removing the “overheat” logo.
At this time, it’s a cold reset, the software start from scratch.
Either not one heat sensor is read, either they are happy with the temperature. This is just plain wrong.
Wisdom:
Which device in the entire 3C family have a heat timer in place?
Something that do not look at temperature, but just put a timer based on usage time to stop a device from working.
And even diplay a thermometer when the time is done?
Which product is the entire 3C family needs an hour or so to cool down, even in a freezer?
But for Canon, it’s a Conspiracy theory?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6a4f2fbad29adc297f6c1b15f44765a8826d327583c3f9ec1225d1d498542c82.jpg
Good sum up, thanks
That cover photo, tho. ???
Unfortunately in today’s world it is too easy to say things and have them reapeated … and it doesn’t matter whether they are true or not.
So … did Canon make a manufacturing mistake and is fixing it?
Or did someone decide to say something about the event that wasn’t true and lots of others passed it on as true?
Betting on the second one.
Betting versus facts….
I prefer facts to conspiracy.
There is nowhere any device that do heat management with a timer. Canon is not doing it either.
Timers are to limit users, not to measure temperatures.
The R5 performs to specification (I have one). Canon tweaked the algorithms in the firmware updates to provide better recovery times and longer record times probably due to actual temperature measurements from the 3 sensors in the body. I am not sure if the videos (fridge etc) were repeated after the firmware updates or not but I suspect not.
The camera overheats as it is in a weather sealed body and there isn’t much space for convection transfer or options for thermal conduction eg sensor is floating due to IBIS. Dedicated video cameras generally don’t have IBIS for this reason.
The engineers made 8K etc possible but there are thermal consequences. Thermal degradation of semiconductors is a real phenomenon. They have maximum operating temperatures for a reason. Yes, you can hack the clocks and battery doors etc but it doesn’t change the actual temperatures inside. Roger Cicala’s teardown and thermal measurements are the best I have seen and he clearly states his ignorance unlike many vloggers who are suddenly thermal experts.
Hack at your own risk as Canon won’t replace under warranty if it has been hacked.
The CFe card/slot is definitely a hot spot. Recording externally 4k60 seems to be unlimited because of this. Canon has promised lower video bit rates in future firmware which hopefully will allow 4k120 and 8K to be recorded externally with longer record times and will be a much cheaper option than CFe cards if users need it.
I am sure there will be options for external conduction via tripod mount/base plate with Peltier etc coolers but they will be big and energy inefficient and are only thermally connected to the rear heat spreader (not front or the sensor).
No conspiracies here. The only artificial issue is the 29:59 video record limit and that is internal not external.
If you don’t like it, buy another 8k camera.
Hack at your own risk as Canon won’t replace under warranty if it has been hacked.
It’s not really a hack and there is no warranty loss after changing the date.
LMAO
“You can hack the clocks and battery doors etc but it doesn’t change the actual temperatures inside.”
That’s perfectly correct,
So resetting the timer is not harming the camera.
All heat sensors are still there to stop you if it’s getting too hot.
If they don’t stop you; you are good to go. Every device will become hot at one point, what you don’t want is them to be too hot.
Max usage time limit is a commercial choice from Canon and is not related to the actual internal temperatures as all test reveals.
Heat sensors are the one you should rely on, the logo on the screen when overheating is also different than the one from the timer.
These are not affected by a change of date/time.
Thanks for this clarification. Appreciate the honesty.
Shamelessly copying from someone else’s post….
Somewhere in a galaxy not far from here, just six short months ago:
Internet: Canon could never put 8K full frame in to a mirrorless camera. They don’t have the technical capabilities to do that. The last time they innovated was when 5d mkii was born.
Canon: Our next 5 series will have 8K and demonstrate what we are capable of.
Internet: (spits coffee on screen) Yeah right. Maybe 8K timelapse mode
Canon: No, 8K video
Internet: Er no, 8K like 15 second movie burst mode then, because you know overheating would happen in such a small body. Do Canon engineers not know anything about physics? That’s why refrigerators exist….
Canon: No full 8K video
Internet: Yeah right…. hahaha. It’s not possible. So no AF or IBIS then. You won’t be able to use the full technologies of the camera/
Canon: No. 8K Full frame, AF and IBIS enabled.
Internet: It’s not possible, because you know…. overheating is a thing with technology in such a small package. If it was possible then Sony would have done it.
Canon: Hold our beer…..
Post launch
Internet: I demand a full unconditional apology from Canon. I demand immediately that they give us unlimited 8K full frame video for $4.99 and stop hiding behind this “overheating” scenario to protect their other cameras. I’ve never felt so personally insulted by a camera company as I have by Canon. To me honest behaviour is very important. I recognize that the only person that is perfect is me and people make mistakes. The important thing is to admit that and not to sell us totally unusable technology like this…
With recording time of 0 second if you where to use the camera before,
With cool down time of an hour after 25mn.
That’s not 8K video with IBIS; It’s nothing
Is it just me showing my age or does it look like the picture of the R5 they used for this article looks like it has a Jiffy-pop popcorn on top of it…
Which begs the question, if your R5 heats up, can you make popcorn on it while you wait for it to cool down.