Street photographer slammed in a viral post for taking photos in public
Aug 12, 2019
Dunja Đuđić
Dunja Djudjic is a multi-talented artist based in Novi Sad, Serbia. With 15 years of experience as a photographer, she specializes in capturing the beauty of nature, travel, concerts, and fine art. In addition to her photography, Dunja also expresses her creativity through writing, embroidery, and jewelry making.
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Last week, street photographer Joshua Rosenthal visited the Ventura County Fair in Ventura, California. Since he is, well, a street photographer, he used the opportunity to take some candid portraits of people at the fair. When he woke up the following day, he saw something extremely unsettling: photos of him were shared across Facebook, along with vicious and disturbing accusations from local vigilantes.
Joshua shared the Facebook post he found. He explained that he often takes photos of people without prior approval, because “the photos speak more to the moment.” He added that “one can’t capture life when it’s being posed.” And while he was taking candid photos at the fair, someone photographed him. His photos were shared on Facebook along with a post calling him a “piece of sh*t” and indicating that he was targeting young girls.
Some of the comments below the post were quite disturbing, saying stuff like “these type of people need to be killed.” And as if all of this weren’t enough, Joshua was also questioned by the police. Ventura Police Department published a post on their Facebook page saying that they questioned the photographer both at the fair and the day after. “No crime occurred during this incident,” the post concluded. However, it has now been deleted from Facebook.
Of course, Joshua felt terrible about the whole incident. “No- one here seems to be assuming responsibility. No- one wants to talk to me about what I did. People are just making accusations with no facts,” he wrote in his Facebook post.
Let’s not forget that a moral compass does not constitute the law. What one sees as being “wrong” is not illegal. In today’s day and age, if you see something you don’t like, ask about it… I’d be willing to bet there is another story.
Sorry I scared you (parents of some random girl) I understand that one wants to protect their kids. But protect them from what? Check out my photography guys, you be the judge. Then if you have questions, ask..
On the one hand, I completely understand parents for being concerned about their kids’ safety. As a photographer, I know what it’s like when people look at you suspiciously (for whichever reason) when you take photos with a DSLR. So, perhaps that suspicion is even bigger when that camera is pointed at their child. Because of this, I would always ask the parent for permission, even though I’m not obliged to. There is no law prohibiting you from taking photos in public, even if you’re photographing children.
Because of this law, some photographers rather just stick to it and simply don’t ask for permission. If I were on the other side of the lens, I would always warn the photographer if I didn’t want mine or my kid’s photo to be taken. If I were concerned, I would express it try to talk, just like Joshua suggested. In my world, most of the problems can be solved with a sincere conversation. But apparently, not everyone thinks the same.
Some people prefer staying quiet and publicly calling out on someone. And I wonder what kind of people will write that someone “needs to be killed.” People like that scare me way more than someone who stealthily takes my photo.
[Update 13 August 2019: the article was edited to include the link to the original Facebook post]
[via PetaPixel]
Dunja Đuđić
Dunja Djudjic is a multi-talented artist based in Novi Sad, Serbia. With 15 years of experience as a photographer, she specializes in capturing the beauty of nature, travel, concerts, and fine art. In addition to her photography, Dunja also expresses her creativity through writing, embroidery, and jewelry making.
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224 responses to “Street photographer slammed in a viral post for taking photos in public”
All this because the guy used a DSLR/Mirrorless to follow his passion for street photography. If he used a phone nobody would have batted an eyelid.
Charlie, true story… ??♂️?
True about the cellphone stuff. Went into building, with my DSLR camera, that had a tall waterfall and wanted to take a few photos like I had did years ago. The security person said “no photography”……. but it was just find if I wanted to use a cellphone.
and this is why I will never do street photography …you just can’t stop Social Media Judge and Juries….
Pretty lame reaction, as you said people will always be judging you online or in person. Might as well keep shooting and move on
I would be way more scared of that person taking photos with there phone rather then letting their intentions known with a actual camera.
Very good point.
I understand from a parent point of view. I remember while traveling in Cambodia several times it was mentioned, kids are not tourist attractions. Please don’t photograph them. I never really thought about it like that before but it’s a fair point. There is plenty to photograph out there. I keep my camera off the kids unless they’re my own or I’m hired to be there. Something that might make it seem less creepy for him, is if he put his name and website on his t-shirt.
They might not even have the same laws in that country, so that’s fairly moot.
Fair point. The other side of that coin is capturing images of a place. For me, I often prefer photos of people abroad or near home, whether man, woman, or child over other travel photos I take. People make a culture more than buildings and mountains.
As an Australian, I may find your local County Fair, or even people walking through your suburb of cultural interest – that is I am preferring to take photos of people abroad when in the USA, showing a place.
And I would understand, although obviously there are points where parents do get concerned. When my daughter was 3, a woman approached us on vacation and asked if she could sketch our daughter while she played.
Do I agree with how this was handled? No. However, I can understand people not wanting a stranger taking their photo and using it without permission. I can understand people, who do not know what you are doing with the photos, getting upset over their daughter’s picture being taken for unknown purposes. Especially in this day and age when we know that can be used to find victims. How do you know the person in your picture is not hiding from someone? If their photo gets out, they could be found and that could be really bad. Asking before hand is just being respectful of others.
Yes because someone who want to use pictures of kids for perverted purposes is going to be using an actual dslr. I’m fairly sure they’d use a mobile camera, nobody would think rwicw about some guy or women with a phone out.
Actually, the more photos of your little girl are being taken every day, the higher the chances are to find the culprit (ex: kidnapper) should something happen.
What? I am a woman so I have children or more specifically a little girl? Really?
This is just asinine.
I’ll bet you don’t get the permission of every person in the background of a selfie or shot of a public place, so please…
Hiding at a county fair? Seems like a poor plan.
First off, this guy was out taking pictures of other people, he was not taking pictures of himself and accidentally getting other people. If someone asked him to not take a picture of them, he should honor that. Second, you assume I take pictures of myself. Nice try. I do not take pictures of myself when I am out in public. Heck, I don’t tend to take pictures or have pictures taken of myself. I don’t like it personally. Every street artist I have ever run into in public has always been courteous enough to ask people if it was ok for them to take candid photos of them. And as I said to start my original comment, which most of you seem to chose to ignore, I do not agree with how this was handled. But hey, do what you have to. People who are trying to avoid an abuser still deserve to have fun and enjoy themselves. Asking is just being polite, especially if you are going to sell my image.
Go back an re-read the article. He was NOT asked to stop. He was photographed (which is perfectly fine)
doing his photography and then slandered online after the fact with
groundless accusations, which triggered online threats that he should be
“killed”. At no time
is it mentioned that anyone asked him to stop. Also, you should know
that NO ONE can sell your image without a model release; that was never
the issue. I did read that you didn’t like how it was handled, but you
apparently didn’t read the original posting
too well and jumped to conclusions.
That’s crazy, the exact opposite could be said that you might save an abducted child.
What is even the point of his photography? Candid portraits of people using cell phones? This kind of thing is ubiquitous to the point of being meaningless, and the fact that it is surreptitious precludes any pre-emptive “discussion.”
I definitely don’t support anyone being killed or threatened for this but there are reasons why more and more laws against this kind of photography are being enacted. The internet is everywhere and once a photo is up, it’s up forever.
Rosenthal needs to get a life of his own and stay out of the lives of others.
Quality troll attempt, bravo.
Obviously not the response of a photographer
Or the response of a jealous rival photographer who’s memory card corrupted on back to back shoots. The plot thickens.
Have you seen street photography of NYC in the 1940’s? Its fascinating.
Folks in 3030 will look back in awe at how we once strapped ourselves into metal boxes on wheels and hurtled ourselves towards oncoming humans expecting them to stay in their lane LOL
“…there are reasons why more and more laws against this kind of photography are being enacted.” Could you give us a few examples?
He camera. He pedo. ARF. ARF.
But she camera, she not pedo. Have you noticed that?
The problems with this guy are his technique and his face. Technique because it’s too obvious he’s aiming at strangers and little girls, you have to learn how to become a ninja. Face because he looks a bit like a psychopath, not just the face but his whole attitude… Some people are really good at detecting potentially dangerous people and that’s why he got flagged.
Poor USA. You are stuck in the hate of everything different and in hate of each other. It`s nice to live here in a developed country like Finland and not in a third world country like Yours. Here I can do my work and take pictures of people at the street.
But what is unbelievable is this POX`s message, he / she has never met this photographer and writes that he looks like a psychopath. Now there is really something very wrong with Your trumpish society. Pedophiles there…of course because of Your have Your churches and tight religion everywhere and churches deny normal sex – so people start to rape and kill etc.
Well said, Jore. I live in the US but originally from Hungary and I share your sentiment.
Amen! I agree 100%. I’m American, born and raised, but I do not feel at home here. The hate this country exudes.. It makes me sick. Someday I’ll save enough money to leave.
Don’t forget to blame it on Trump.
Thanks, I am glad you agree…
Then get the fuck out! You broke piece of shit.
You just said Finland is a developed country and the US is a third world country? If you don’t like America, just say so. But don’t go on this wild unrelated rant that has zero to do with the topic.
63 million US adult citizens cannot read a newspaper – meaning a third is illitterate. In Finland everybody can read ( over 7 years old)… Thta is what I call third world amount. Liking or not liking has nothing to do with facts. And if one cannot read, it affects many parts of life..the less you read the more religious you are. The more religious you are the more mental problems. The more mental problems the more rape and violence. Looking from Europe US is third world with mass killings and the largest porn industry in the world.
?? you have yourself a good day
Nailed it. And I’m American. This country is a dumpster fire. If I could move to Canada I would.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
You can’t even figure out spell check.. Let alone trying to move to a foreign country. Did you ever think that maybe YOU’RE the dumpster fire?!
Maybe that’s why Hillary lost. Morons like you couldn’t figure out how to put down the vegan soy latte long enough to go to the voting booth. Pussy.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2e60422b4a36adbf803883da0ce67ef7d2d2eca948d3770598a49852606a82bb.jpg
What’s stopping you? Canada is totally taking well educated immigrants. Germany is also but you have to speak German.
We may not be able to read, but we can do simple math.
World atlas puts the US literacy rate at 86%, which means less than a sixth of the population cannot read. Not great, sure, but not at all the exaggeration you hold to be true.
If you’re going to insult an entire nation at least get your numbers right.
“Approximately 32 million adults in the United States can’t read (at all), according to the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development found that 50 percent of U.S. adults can’t read a book written at an eighth-grade level.”
–
63 million cannot read a newspaper.
–
In everyday life everybody on Finland or Scandinavia can read. USa is a nation about to collapse because of illiteracy, watching ABC and hearing rumors from Breitbart does not help to understand each other. And because of the hate and envy everywhere in america people commit crimes. The hypocrit nation USA has the worlds biggest porn industry. Sex has the label of terrible sin and sick people like pedophiles molesters kidnappers murderes etc are getting along cause religion tells the ways people should behave. But education could make things better. That is if there were any . Poor people go to the worst schools cause USA is a class society. Here in scandinavia everybody gets the same, free education and the same free medical care. You can call it socialism but go to Detroit etc and ask people living on the street how would they think about the Scandinavian modell, here we take care of everybody.
This thread shows well the dividing society of USA.
The hate and lies rule and destroy Your country.
Pedophiles, molesters, kidnappers, murderes, etc are getting along cause religion tells the ways people should behave? Seriously?
Your opinions have no basis in logic. Also, see how my illiterate self added commas to you ridiculous comments.
Seems odd that you attack US religion when your churches are directly funded by your taxes. The fact that your nation actually has state religions places you in the dark ages.
Funny you should say this “watching ABC and hearing rumors from Breitbart does not help to understand each other.” When it is you who has conditioned your mind to hate an entire country. Most likely based on zero first hand knowledge. Yet it is us here in the US that are hypocrites.
The irony in your post is palpable.
You did get one thing right. There “you” take care of “each other.” Here “we” take care of “ourselves.”
My words are those of sociologists. Religion and its hypocritical attitude is important factor in developing crime. I am not a part of church here – I am an atheist, don`t know or care what they pay and to whom here..if somebody is not a memeber of church they do not pay anything like me. I do not write about you with insults— like you do to me and my person. I write wider why USA is full of crime and fear of crime,,which is why this thread started. That is the difference between Europe and America. You act with violence – verbal or physical- to difficult problems. We at least try to solve them talking and not shooting everybody down like You in USA
No use trying to have a deep conversation with primitive americans.
Over and out.
Run and hide when presented with YOUR hypocrisy. I see how you are.
Don’t worry, we’ll be here to save you guys again next time some altruistic European despot tries to exterminate you.
Anybody in this country who WANTS to learn can find somebody who’ll teach them.
“Technique because it’s too obvious he’s aiming at strangers and little girls”
LOL I love how you started with something innocuous & then threw in “and little girls” to try and make it sound creepy. It’s like saying “did you know that 100% of men have eaten food, breathed air or RAPED AN UNDERAGE GIRL.”
See how I made eating food & breathing air sound sinister by adding that last qualifier? That’s what you just did. As for him taking photos of strangers, of course he did, that’s literally what street photography is.
“Face because he looks a bit like a psychopath, not just the face but his whole attitude”
LOL, classic projection: You’ve never met the guy & you’ve just interjected an entire personality on this guy you’ve never met & have found the personality you have attributed to him to be lacking. You are literally opposed to the guy based entirely on a story that’s in your own mind & ONLY your mind. In other words you are shadow boxing your own mind.
“Some people are really good at detecting potentially dangerous people and that’s why he got flagged.”
LOL, everyone is potentially dangerous, so yeah 100% of people are great at detecting potentially dangerous people, it’s a very easy skill to possess. If you see a person that person is potentially dangerous, by default.
What absolute fearmongering you have engaged in here.
And another neurotic!!
I never take children photos. Without permission.
I see SO many great shots.
But in today’s world.
SAFETY is job #1.
Plus you should respect people’s privacy.
I have parents come to me when I am shooting that’s a whole different game.
It’s just not like the old days.
We mean well.
But a few creeps ruin it.
That’s what today’s world is.
That’s exactly what lots of people don’t understand. You can’t just take pics of others kids without consent or explanation, it’s not okay.
Seems like you don’t understand because actually, by law, you can and don’t need permission to take any pictures in public. Now morally, that may be different, but what he did was not illegal by any means
And that’s way he’s not in jail, just rejected by a community.
Rejected by a paranoid community when he did nothing wrong. Seems a lot of people have adopted the “witch hunts are ok” mentality. The desire to be a victim is strong with the weak minded, and we have a surplus of the weak minded in this country…….
And I don’t think the rejection or witch hunt is ok. I’m just saying that is logical and if the photographer wasn’t able to avoid creating a conflict it was because of lacking a responsibility sense. That’s a typical thought on mediocre and selfish artists ‘I can do whatever I want, is art and I am an artist’. Being sincere, I’ve seen the guy’s work and I don’t see the natural personas that are supposed to be caught infraganti in the streets, you just see people looking at the camera with an uncomfortable face about being shot at…
Personally I could never figure the draw of street photography or other “photos of random strangers” so I can’t really defend him other than he is within his legal rights. That said the mob mentality and victim card are turning this country into a USSR type country where everyone is suspicious of each other and more than happy to turn them in to the KGB for their reward of likes and acknowledgment of their “victim” status.
“He’s just doing ‘whatever he wants because he’s an Artist of considers himself an Artist’?” Legally the law says he is not doing anything illegal so why should he not be allowed to do whatever it is he wants to do? Because someone else decides they don’t like him doing what he is doing and doesn’t want him to do it? You can legally say and do whatever you want because you have that right but only as long as I agree with it? Is that how this works now?
TY. You’re right. In public you need no permission. And if you obstruct you can should be charged with assault, menacing or harassment.
I will take a picture of your child if he/she is out in a public place if I want to because I have the right to do so. That being said, if you saw me and asked me to stop once I had politely shown you what I was doing and explained I was doing nothing wrong, I would. I choose not to be an asshole about it.
I welcome the conversation about safety and knowledge about what I am doing JUST LIKE the photographer in the article. If someone had just asked him what he was doing, he would have explained it and shown them. They could have had that conversation and the public lynching would have been avoided.
TL;DNR:
“You can’t just take pics of others kids without consent or explanation, it’s not okay.”
How could this photographer explain what he was doing if NO ONE came up an asked him?! They didn’t. They lynched him on social media instead and defamed him.
THAT is what is not okay.
I agree with you. But you are wrong in one thing, you don’t have the right to take a picture of my kids even in a public place without my permission because I live in Spain, and in here laws are different…
Jason Sobel there is no expectation of privacy at public events
Right. But, yelling Fire in a crowded theater isn’t a good example of free speech, and these days, even walking by a children’s park holding a “professional” camera gets you looks that would wilt a plant. So, I try to not even do that, even if I am on my way to photograph plants. It is part of today’s society, and while I am glad I am not a street photographer, it really does change the whole notion of what street photograph is, in the U.S. It is too bad, but it is today’s reality.
That’s your world.
In mine I respect it.
The beauty of America
sounds like you’ll censor yourself over making art you want.
“SAFETY is job #1.”
It’s a camera, not a gun. How is having your photo taken in a public place unsafe.
Ed Selby trying telling that to angry parents that are screaming that you are a pedo and ready to smash your camera.
“Plus you should respect people’s privacy.” There is NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY in a public place.
I agree 100%.
I ALWAYS get permission if you are a professional act accordingly.
Have ethics and morals.
Actually Shell, in most places in the US, if you are on public property, taking pictures of people/things also on public property you don’t need permission. You are operating 100% legally.
It’s what allows street photography as a whole to exist.
Regardless, everyone is missing the point of the article.
This is all good “If he is going to sell and make money off of the images”, Is that what you are claiming he was doing or is going to do? Then your assumptions are wrong. You only need permission if you are going to sell the images you take at the event and know ahead of time that is what you plan to do. Everyone has a cell phone nowadays so everyone is carrying around the ‘possibility’ of taking photographs; you can’t discriminate against that one person carrying an actual camera. Your logic is backward as is all this fear about him being a ‘possible pedophile’, a Pedophile would use a cell phone and knows not to draw unwanted attention to himself. DUH!
Not in the USA; there is explicitly no expectation of privacy in a PUBLIC space. You can “opt-out” by not going into the public space; your choice. Model releases are only required if you publish for profit, not for art. Buildings are not protected as long as you photograph from a public space.
This is hilarious. If someone wants a photo of you there is nothing you can really do. Who cares?
Telephoto lenses can get a crystal clear image from over 100 meters away.
It’s all pedophilia fear. People love drama and nothing lets people toot their horn more than a pedo accusation.
They are normally bored looking for something to get offended at. Like chimps lobbing rocks at other chimps to get a response.
Photographer should have asked the fair ground first and could have avoided all of this if he had permission.
Retards everywhere…
I took my DSLR to an ice cream farm with a bunch of kids in attendance. No problems, I just didn’t take photos of people. Hell I felt wrong taking a picture of someone’s dog without asking.
Everyone knows what’s going on.
Mr. “retards everywhere”, do you have kids?
Irrelevant.
LOL that’s the main thing with this issue… if the guy wouldn’t have been taking shots of others’ kids without asking for permission or explaining himself there wouldn’t have been any kind of drama. You aren’t getting the point of this at all.
How can you tell if someone is taking a picture of a kid in public or not? Are you suggesting a camera can never be pointed in the direction of a child in public?
Of course you can shoot to wherever you want. The thing is that this guy was taking pictures of a girl dancing… We know is nothing obscene and that the guy wasn’t a perv but how was the mother able to know that?
Ask. Like a normal civilized person. All the drama would have been prevented if people would just talk to him.
In fact the photographer was the one who had to explain himself. He was the one making the action…
NOPE. Public place. If you don’t like it, don’t go out in the public. I would have sued them into poverty if they had posted this about me. The law is clear; if you are in a public place, you can take any photograph you want. If someone assaults or hassles you, you can sue them and should.
Thank you! That’s exactly righ . The Constitution makes no mention of any right to privacy in public places. Period. And just exactly what is a pedophile going to do with a picture of a fully clothed child? Use Photoshop to attach the head onto a naked child’s torso? The pedophile doesn’t need to take pictures to do that. There are millions of pictures of young children available everywhere. Give it a rest already! And stop trying to impede on other people’s freedoms.
Right Carl, there is no expectation of privacy in a public place.
Where did you go to law school? You are going to pay a lawyer then thousand for a one thousand judgement ?
“In fact the photographer was the one who had to explain himself. He was the one making the action…” He had no obligation to explain anything. Photography in public is Constitutionally protected free speech as per the SCOTUS.
You are one of the mob that has turned this country into an emotionally ret@rded anti-freedom hades hole……..
“We know is nothing obscene and that the guy wasn’t a perv but how was the mother able to know that?” She could have simply stood by and watched the man’s behavior perhaps?
Yes, that would have been great, but not everyone is so reasonable. And that’s what a street photographer has to be aware of. Even photographing the homeless (which are the favorite of n00bs) can be disrespectful.
We get it, you’re the type that’s obsessed with their kid/s. Congrats. You probably overshare their photos on Facebook then make a fuss about this on forums.
You’re great at making up prejudices! You are not different to the ones you are criticizing man…
Bravo!
Think of the children!
Ok. I am. Now what?
I DO! They make lovely photographs. :)
I agree and disagree.
Yes, we live in a culture of paranoia, and media-driven outrage but let’s not be naive… It is a well known fact that paedophiles hang out at holiday destinations and fair grounds pretending to be photographers to get close to children. It happens.
Would I want a random guy photographing my kid from 3 feet away? No. Would I photograph a kid without permission? Never. It’s naive.
It’s all a matter of perspective, judgement and preconceptions. We live in strange times.
“It is a well known fact that paedophiles hang out at holiday destinations and fair grounds pretending to be photographers to get close to children.”
CROCK-O-SHIT!!
A well known fact is it now? I’ve been a photographer for about forty years now and have never heard of that.
Street photography can be a dicey proposition but some of the best photos come from street photography.
This is a sticky topic. But if you’re in the public ? I don’t photograph kids period, not a playgrounds, not at a fair but it’s Legal to do. What? What well known fact about the pedophiles hanging out in holiday destinations? Where is the statistics or did you survey?
Can you cite sources for your claims about pedophiles masquerading as photographers? Wikipedia is not a real source.
When I was in high school, our photo class would go to the day-care center on campus for the class assignment on candids. Nobody accused us of being pervs.
There are also ableist pieces of shit everywhere, who knew?
(In case you didn’t get it: don’t ever use the word ‘retard’. I don’t care what excuse you have or how edgy you want to be, it’s not acceptable in non-arsehole society).
“Retard” is a word that has many uses, most of them not offensive:
verb: (used with object) to make slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); hinder or impede.
verb (used without object)to be delayed.
noun:a slowing down, diminution, or hindrance, as in a machine.
Slang: Disparaging and Offensive.
So, if you’re not making fun of someone, it IS acceptable.
far from hilarious its actually very scary for anyone who enjoys photography.
I only shoot super wide…in your face. Not doining it to show off, but I like the look. If I liked tele look I’d do that. Super wides bring you into their world. Now if I was a detective and didn’t care about art, I’d shoot through a telescope.
And you are right in your analysis, photogs are in the right, not the complainers. But that is just how things are in 2019.
there is so many bad people out there today, parents don’t know who they can trust in public any longer, can you blame them for being upset your taking photos of their them/their kids in public?
Yes, I can and do blame them for being upset. I am disgusted by them for attacking this innocent photographer before simply confronting him with their issue.
Also, get some basic grammar lessons. You’re embarrassing yourself.
Instead of worrying about his grammar, why don’t you worry about getting a job? ..Asshole.
Yes, heavily. They’re making the problem worse, not better.
I completely understand – and agree about – why he might take photos without prior permission; candid photos better represent real life than staged photos. However, this guy could try to not be a jerk by at least asking people for permission to use photos of them AFTER the photo has been TAKEN (ESPECIALLY of other people’s children) . It takes a couple seconds and completely prevents situations like THIS.
The parents could not be jerks by criticizing somebody engaging in a Constitutionally protected activity.
Do we REALLY need to have the conversation about the fact that just because something is legal doesn’t mean that it’s not the behavior of a jerk?
Yes. Apparently we do, because personal interpretation of a situation is no substitute for laws.
Not kid related, but I was at my local brewery a few days ago and this creep came up and, pretending to take a picture of the bar, tilted to instead take a picture of the bartender- a very attractive young lady. Then he went back to show his buddies like some sort of big shot. This was a guy in his 50’s perv’ing on a early 20’s woman.
So I understand why these people got so upset. I also understand that there’s nothing legally wrong with taking pictures of people in public. I guess it comes down to basic respect which a lot of people lack these days. He should have said something after taking the photo.
You just described a very specific act, which is entirely not what the photographer in question did, i.e “perving” on a young woman and bragging to his friends, yet you say you can understand why these people got so upset. There is no correlation.
Not related, even making things worse by pretending these are related.
“This was a guy in his 50’s perv’ing on a early 20’s woman.” You nailed it, CB. All those 50’s types who take photos of young female bartenders are perverts, especially if they show the photo to their friends. RIGHT!!
A bar is not a public space; it is a privately owned area. Depending upon the policy of the bar, they could have asked him to leave or barred his being in the place. Not the same…
The real creeps know to get the parents trust and the parents hand over the kids.
The real creeps hide what they’re doing, and don’t use cameras that attracts attention.
We have a generation of stupid people, that can’t parent running around attacking innocent photographers..
And yet security cameras, surveillance cameras, google and apple cars, government drones and satellites are everywhere…
it’s always the drug addicts that would prostitute their own kids out for a fix that scream pervert when the see a photographer because they’re afraid someone is recording their drug deals …
You’re a funny american guy.
Is this Alex Jones on a fake account?
“it’s always the drug addicts that would prostitute their own kids out for a fix that scream pervert when the see a photographer because they’re afraid someone is recording their drug deals” DUMBASS STATEMENT OF THE DECADE!
I’m still laughing at this, can we make this a meme please?
I have always asked afterward, if I catch a cool moment. I think it stems from my time with a newspaper and being a mom. I carry cards and let them know how to get ahold of me if they are interested in a print.
I was only asked once by an adult to delete an image, she was clearly not feeling ‘safe’ with having her image published. I obliged.
I do the same but I also don’t ask. I have some pretty cool shots of kids from the zoo when I was in college at RIT for photography.
Who took his photos?
The person who took the photos of him is actually the one at fault.
Not only did they accuse him of a crime he didn’t commit, they also took pictures of him – with his face in them – and posted them om social media…
There will always be twats on the internet thay make dumb comments. As long as the photos are not of children or naked people who cares what he does! Also no bank cards!
Speaking of twats.
It is unacceptable to take photos of individuals and publish, especially for profit. Unless he has written permission to do so. There is a lot you can do about it. Invasion of privacy, most respectable online sites would require permission from subject before publishing. It is one thing if figure is in general shot but not the case here. And to include children, if he has, is criminal.
Nothing you can do about being neurotic!
Not neurotic to hope for good manners.
Blanket “authoritarian morality” isn’t good manners.
Deliberately misinforming people isn’t good manners.
In terms of US law, that very much depends.
This varies state to state, but generally if the portraits will be used commercially then a signed model release is required. Otherwise, photos taken in public venues have no legal expectation of privacy, regardless of age. The law is very clear on this, which is why even though police were involved in the incident, no criminal action was taken.
As stated, if figure is in general scene no issue. But photographer is targeting individuals, including children. Not allowed in UK and I imagine in US also. But we are not going to agree so I am out.
I’m unfamiliar with the particulars of photography in UK law, you may be entirely correct on that front, presently I couldn’t say one way or the other without researching further.
I’m not really seeking to agree or disagree, merely pointing out what US law states. By all means, don’t take my word for it, look it up for yourself.
No, “you’re out” because you’re wrong and can’t defend your false statements. Cheers!
Not wrong. If you photograph a specific person you are not allowed to use commercially without permission. And I am a photographer.
Not only is it allowed, but if you share the photo of yourself without crediting the photographer, you can be sued for stealing another person’s intellectual property. Photography falls under copywrite laws in the US.
Ah, you’ve just changed the goal posts. If you’re talking about commercial use of pictures then that’s a different story. But there’s still no law that stops you photographing man, woman or child in a public place. On private property, there may be different rules, depending on the property owner. Still not an offence though
Wow, you really shifted those goal posts.
Fine art is not commercial. Commercial is using the image for marketing or other promotional use of a commercial entity.
Nonsense. There is no such law in the UK. The only law relating to images of children is that they not be ‘indecent’. We went through this paranoid nonsense during the authoritarian NuLab regime. It wasn’t illegal then and it’s not now. Though many ill trained PCSOs thought so.
Obviously if you take photos in a bullying aggressive fashion then you may be committing a public order offence but none of that applies in this case. I’d have thought that American parents might have far more reason to fear an unhinged nutcase with a concealed firearm than a photographer with a harmless camera. The imbecility of people never ceases to astonish me.
Rubbish!!! – enough said.
Scenario – you take a photo of my child who is recognisable in the photo. You then publish it for whatever reason without permission and especially for financial gain. You live in la la land if you think I would not be able to sue your butt off. And this also applies to adults. We are not talking about general shots but specific ‘portrait’ images. And then we have the irony that many photographers would scream copyright abuse if someone used their photo without permission when they did not seek permission to take the picture. Most POD sites will not accept such images without a release from the subject. Consider this a free lesson. The end.
No, you are wrong. There is no expectancy of privacy in a public place. It is 100% legal for a photographer to take the photo of anyone who does not have an expectancy of privacy.
Wrong it is legal in the U.S.
No, you are wrong and intentionally misleading others with bad information.
Are you not familiar with paparazzi? What you describe is exactly how tabloid magazines and websites operate.
Slightly different in that the persons are usually public figures as it relates to publishing those photos.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. In the USA: Anyone in “public” has NO expectation of privacy and can be photographed with impunity. What you can’t do is use that photo for profit without the subject’s permission. Photographing children in public is perfectly legal. Please stop spreading such nonsense. Educate yourself before you propose to inform others.
You can profit from art sells. You can’t use it commercially.
Just plain wrong.
Surprisingly, here in Kazakhstan, no one pays attention to photographers at events. They may be outraged if there is absolutely no one on the street, but when there are a lot of people, then there are a lot of photographers. I constantly wonder how all people calmly perceive photographers at the fair, although they are usually suspicious. Some photoshttps://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2c635156068351795867596b433a2177f077c375e1639860b3853be2bc6db8a2.jpg
Surprisingly, here in Kazakhstan, no one pays attention to photographers at events. They may be outraged if there is absolutely no one on the street, but when there are a lot of people, then there are a lot of photographers. I constantly wonder how all people calmly perceive photographers at the fair, although they are usually suspicious. Some photos
I took a picture of people sleeping on a train and it won best photo in my photography class.
Photo please….
If it was a woman it would not be questioned
Yup well said. I was about to comment and say that
Exactly what I was going to say, more often than not parents ask me ignorant I got good pictures and request a copy
Beg to differ as I am female. I was at my local zoo taking candids for practice. I was stopped and questioned several times. I spent a total of five hours at the zoo wandering around and enjoying myself and taking pictures, particularly of little kids, and probably had a couple people ask me what I was doing two or three times on the hour. I had a large telephoto lens so I didn’t need to get up in anyone’s face and ruin the moment but it made me a clear and obvious target for “stranger danger” worryworts. This has also happened when I’ve been out in the city or any other public area. I like parks, and children generally come with that territory. I get the glares as well.
Of course, I’ve always politely informed anyone who stopped me that I was within my legal rights to take pictures as I please, but that being said, I have never been offended that people are concerned about strangers taking pictures of their children. I happily show them what I am taking and even give them my details if they want any of the shots. Very few have followed through. The fact that I freely gave my contacts as opposed to asking for theirs also helps.
Sadly the problem is that so many people are hyperaware and keen to jump on anyone who MIGHT be doing the wrong thing when it’s obvious. I’ve seen more upskirting of women and young girls by random business men with mobile phones than I’ve ever seen anything untoward being done by photographers.
”
I was at my local zoo taking candids for practice. I was stopped and questioned several times.”
People are getting too damn paranoid these days. It’s part of our culture, being paranoid, afraid of the unknown, etc. It seriously needs to stop! We are not a warm and compassionate people by a long shot, we need to be better, do better.
Funny, many times I will shoot with my women photo friends, and they usually will be yelled at or question :-)
Would there be another Cartier Bresson if we all would react as idiots about taking pictures of people, young or old?
Facebook breeds hate, supports supression of dissenting voices and proves how disturbed and savage the left is.
Care to join THIS discussion?
White Male paranoia, they all pedophiles. Pathetic
we should report every teenager with a cellphone then?
Bingo. Who knows what evil lurks in their hearts?
Firstly, in this world we now live in, full of suspicion, paranoia and alarmist behaviour… It’s very, very naive of a photographer to take photos of kids without permission at a fair.
Maybe approach the person after taking the shot, introduce yourself and ask if you can keep it.
Personally, I’d never photograph a child without pernission. It just feels wrong to me.
On the other hand, and the main problem here is the sad fact that a person’s first reaction at seeing a man with a camera at a fair is… Pervert, child molester, weirdo, paedophile. With no justification.
That prejudice and judgement is very much in the eye of the beholder and says a lot about their thought process and modern society in general.
I think the summary is… Assume nothing, use common sense, be safe and communicate.
“Common sense is what tells us the earth is flat.”
―
Stuart Chase
Right you are Carl. What passes for “common sense” in today’s world usually has a lot more to do with “common” than it does with “sense”.
“It’s very, very naive of a photographer to take photos of kids without permission at a fair.” And it’s very idiotic for people to make dumbass statements like this on the internet.
I personally do not do street photography. It may be legal but it can also be very dangerous. There are many sick individuals out there that do not know the law and believe they would be justified in harming you and destroying your equipment.
When I read postings from many street photographers. I see them talking about using small cameras and shooting from the hip without looking at the subjects. It seems that they realize that some people may not be happy with what they are doing. Which is why they try and conceal what they are doing.
On a personal note I would not like someone taking my picture without my permission.
That is really sad, Mr User. I feel your pain.
“I personally do not do street photography. It may be legal but it can also be very dangerous. There are many sick individuals out there that do not know the law and believe they would be justified in harming you and destroying your equipment.”
Sure, but that’s true about every aspect of life. ALL of life is very dangerous. I mean how many people ever get out of life alive? None. Doesn’t mean I’m going to stop living, because living could be dangerous.
Buddy, you’re in the wrong hobby…
Monopods do more then hold up cameras. Aluminum is better the weight helps lower vibration. And lawyers are good at sueing those who would attack a person. Couple 100k for assault and kids parent doing 3 to 5 in prison vs being with their kid.
I often shoot from the hip but not for a nefarious reason. It is the only way to capture natural situations. If people see a camera aimed in their direction they will pose, or get self-conscious, or smile, etc. People have been taught to pose and smile for cameras. That is not what I’m after, that’s boring.
Why are people so stupid? ??
I agree it’s insensitive (at best) to take pictures of kids without parent permission. But the paranoia has gotten to the point where kids don’t even have to be present for accusations to fly. I was shooting in an empty school parking lot during winter break after dark in the rain. A neighborhood mom drove up to me and asked what I was doing, and when I told her I was a photographer, and I shoot lonely parking lot scenes, she replied that I was in a school, and there was a neighborhood nearby, and I could be photographing children.
She and I were the only people around!
I understand the fear, I really do, but I agree with the commenters who say the paranoia has reached ridiculous levels.
Difference between the photog in the photos and the trouble maker that took them is that they photois an actual photographer creating art in a public place openly, they guy that took the photos of him is just a peach of shit trouble making creep taking photos in a creepy way just to cause trouble. This is the other problem of all phones having cameras, people like this idiot snap photos of someone doing no harm then post them in the most vial way for the sole purpose of harming their reputation. the guy posting them was not doing it to protect anyone because no one was being harmed, but he decided to cause trouble anyway for his own amusement. What is funny is the number of people in comments under the article that claimed they have never taken photos of kids without permission, that is a lie. Have they asked every person in the background of a photo of their kids at a fair for permission? no.
The “you should respect people’s privacy.” was also funny as it was in public and their was no privacy breached.. what is even crazier is if he had been a woman no one would have done anything, in fact there were likely women elsewhere taking photos , yet a woman could have been doing the samething and selling them to a peado ring.
If you don’t want yourself (or your kids) to be photographed in public, stay home and draw the curtains. The Nussenzweig v. DiCorcia case settled this a long time ago. I have been screamed at, reported to the police (who laughed), and lectured by bystanders about being “a pervert”. When you’re a street photographer, it goes with the territory.
Right you are.
Hey, all you klutzes walking around out there. I might just photograph you. Better watch out. Beware. Terrible consequences might result. Stay home and be safe.
Be sure and pull the drapes.
The jackass who posted the warning on Facebook literally admits to taking a video ?. The fact that he didn’t see the irony in his own statement proves his utter lack of intelligence.
Is taking someone’s photo in public a crime? No? Then don’t worry about people having some hyperbolic flip out. Decide if you want to make art or censor yourself. Seems like a lot on here take the latter.
Are people of the opinion that if its a male with a camera, he only takes photos of kids for nefarious purposes?
Some people, evidently. And it appears as though one or two are posting comments here!
Yep, been there had it done to me too. The world is becoming a very intolerant place. Either one is accosted or mugged.
Soon we’ll have 100 MP cameras and 8K video on our phones to take stills from, so the point will be moot. Just another tourist taking pictures. Maybe not ideal, but a much safer option for legitimate street photographers documenting the world.
Whoever commented that the guy “should be killed”, should themselves be reported for making death threats.
My car takes video in public every time I drive it. A Tesla can take video from three cameras even when it is parked….
Although legal, taking pictures of children without permission is creepy – not everything legal is morally right. If enough street photographers did it don’t be surprised if parents have their children wearing hoods, sunglasses, veils and caps to protect their privacy.
I had a guy come after me when I took a candid photo of him. He seemed a bit off, but some people really hate having their photos taken without permission and others find the concept of street photography to be creepy, intrusive or aggressive.
It’s a shame given the beauty of natural, spontaneous moments, but anyone who has done street or public photography knows there can and will be consequences at times.
My advice is to hire models and avoid the potential for misunderstandings.
What seems to be missing from all of this is the photgrapher’s photos from this day. If he portrays his work in his street style, showing it’s in an artistic format and not malice then the FB poster would look foolish.
So many people commenting about how it’s ok for the parents to be upset, blah blah blah, and every single one is missing the point.
This article isn’t about people being concerned, this article is about someone who responded in an inappropriate way to the situation, that could have been resolved simply by walking over, being an adult and communicating with the guy.
Instead this person decided to be a social media justice warrior and slander someone, based on their own assumptions and misunderstandings.
Things like this can cause irreparable damage not just to a persons profession but to a persons life.
Liam Tain that’s the problem with working in public, you have to deal with the public. Society has decided that its odd for grown men to focus on children. It’s just that way.
Like I said, the issue isn’t with people having a problem with him taking pictures of a kid.
The issue is how those people handle the situation.
But sadly the types of people that act like that, don’t care at all if they destroy someone else’s life, because they “did the right thing”.
Never underestimate the power of self-righteousness.
Today’s social media is a court, with no conscience or rules. This happened to me too. About two years ago I was shooting street photography when some guy who apparently watched too many “Catch A Predator” type TV shows falsely accused me of taking pictures of little girls. I immediately showed him the photos on my camera but he said I must have erased the little girls quickly (how?) and that he knew what he saw me do. He took a picture of me with his phone and posted it on facebook saying I was a predator and within 24 hours over THREE HUNDRED people had believed what he said, and shared his post on THEIR facebook pages, and started a lynch mob. They left comments like “Let’s find this creep and take care of him” “This guy should be killed” and so forth!! When I found out about this I confronted him on facebook and said I was going to consult a lawyer. He deleted his post within seconds, and that made all of the comments and all of the “shares” vanish also. It feel sorry street photographer Joshua because I know what a terrifying and helpless experience it is to be convicted by internet lynch mob. Social media spreads lies at the speed of lightning and it’s shocking how many people believe what someone rights and jumps on board the “Kill Him!” bandwagon. I did consult with a lawyer who said that it would not be worth pursuing since the accuser deleted his post so quickly. I wanted to sue him AND all the people who left disgusting comments based on lies and ignorance but apparently it can’t be done.
This is all fair. He’s in public, they’re in public, anybody can photograph anyone else and post it. If the photographer posts children they might get unwanted attention. Why is the photographer whining that he got unwanted attention. If you just walk around without a camera talking to random young girls and children you will get a similar response. Holding a camera doesn’t give you any special license.
Michael Wilson I agree with you for the most part. Unfortunately there is always a possibility that a parent has escaped from an abusive situation and is trying to keep a low profile while hiding from their former partner. If a picture of a child is published it may draw attention and cause the parent to once again feel unsafe. So in this age I believe that asking permission is and needs to be a new norm.
Scott Orchard I agree, but not everyone is polite. out in public, you get what you get. It’s ironic that the photographer is all hurt about unwanted attention from pics of him.
There’s a huge difference in taking and posting pictures of people in a public place and saying “pictures I took at the fair” and taking pictures of someone and calling them a pedo, sick SOB, etc. That’s libel and the photographer could easily sue for defamation of character, especially if he can prove it caused harm to this livelihood
If I take my very obvious cam out in public. You know where I am showing intent to take photos. I most often wear my business shirt. Logo on front, PHOTOGRAPHER on back. It helps ease the scare factor. With all the things going on in the world I don’t wanna add to the mania.
To be honest its men who get criticised.. women can get away with it more than anything…
The crazy thing is the guy who reported it used his own surveillance with questionable intent
Its too bad a guy I used to work with wasn’t there. This photo would have eaten his camera. So sue later. No regard for other people in public. But of course: HE IS AN ARTISTE & HAS SUPERIOR RIGHTS!
No just rights that you don’t get to remove because of your opinions. Guess that makes you bitter…
I have taken tons of photos at fairs and other events when something magical is happening. If it’s of a kid, I always approach them with my business card and then show them the photo and ask if they want a copy. Every single time, the parent is absolutely thrilled that I captured a moment they had missed because they were trying to take it with their phone. Some have even offered to pay me for the digital file. I also carry a consent form for moments when I think I might want to use the photo in contests or on my website, and I have never been turned down for that, either. Of course, my consent form specifies the things I will never use the photo for, which I think helps the parents understand that I am conscious of their fears. The most important thing is to express true joy for capturing something amazing and they will pick up on that mood. The only time I’ve been turned down and asked to delete a photo was of someone’s dog.
Meanwhile, there are video cameras watching every single thing we do! But, a photographer? A guy trying to make a living?
Isn’t it only wrong to publish the photos he took without prior permission? I don’t know. I’m asking.
Somewhere there may be a photo of me at the Marriage Bureau in NYC sitting next to some subjects I was shooting. 2 tattooed lesbians, one was bald headed, were getting married. One of their man hating attendees caught me shooting and grabbed my arm and shook me some. I just walked way. Was not looking for a fight. Normally I may gas someone like that if they keep it up, but the Bureau confiscated my watered down NYC legal pepper spray when I went through the metal detector.
Although the above is not a kiddy example, Don Smith is right. Men taking photos of kids on the street = sex predator’s. Women are usually OK, but just depends on the SJW busy body doing the scoldining.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3519ff55c93f8fb50391095ea989dd1ea2a4204c54ad73163e1cd6aa9414302d.jpg
If you like to shoot kids, you have to have outstanding candid skills. One key, beside the good skills is to ‘hit and run.’ You don’t have to actually run, but you can’t stay still and shoot a bunch of photos either. That is how I got caught in the Marriage Bureau…I was shooting candid for 2.5 hours. No matter how good you are, and believe me, I’m one of the best at candid work, sooner or later you get caught if you don’t keep moving.
Now listen up. America is in a soft civil war. If you don’t toe the party line you may get hurt or killed if you don’t wear the right hat or shirt. This is what America has turned into. Things will only get worse. I work both coasts and the center of the country…so I see the big picture.
If you like doing street work, work smart and be ready to protect yourself if things turn ugly. Google ‘Self Defense for the Street Photographer.’ Lots of tools for staying safe on the street.
There is no use replying to peep holes who do not like opinions.
The photog should try it with Alec Baldwin… Then he might gain some ca$h out (00t in Canada) of his most excellent enterprise.Common sense should be combined with “RIGHTS”.
ha got to love the #butthurt movement :D Fruitcakes and cry babies, time to bring back the belt!
Perhaps a badge with a sign telling that you’r e a streetphotographer, or a shirt…. I would wear a badge.
It is amazing at times how really clueless people about what can happen in a public space. I used to ride around on a bicycle in one park near me, stopping once in awhile to snap photos (not any kids). Later, while chatting with a park police officer, who was in his car, he mentioned that people had been calling the local sheriff’s office on me, for taking photos in the park. We both had a laugh, since the sheriff had to explain my rights to do so in a public park.
On the people that I have encounters while out shooting street photos, it seems the ones that yell at you, say it’s against the law to take photos without a person’s permission or threaten to call the police….. well they all seem to want to just yell at someone and argue. At that time, I just move on without even saying anything. Now if the person is civil and has a question on what I am doing, well I will take the time to explain. So these parent should have asked the photographer what he was doing and to please stop.
Taking pictures or video of kids will get a negative reaction. Lecturing the parents won’t help. Of course adults also don’t like being photographed. There is a fine line between stalking, harassment and photography.
Actual paedophiles don’t advertise their presence with a proper camera adn open ness. The photographer has been libelled. Probably not worth the expense of suing. Nevertheless the libeller is the evil one here.