DIYPhotography.net

Thanks for the great article. I have an R300, and I have been wondering how well this works. I've been a little shy after having mixed results with 3rd party replacement cartridges, but now I think I may give it a try.

One thing you did not mention was the costs and potential sources for the archival ink. I'd appreciate a follow up with info on your results with that printer.

I have only found one supplier of Archival Ink here in Canada, so far,
and am not happy with the price.

Even with shipping, tax and duty paid, the ink from www.inksupply.com
is much cheaper.

The only thing I have noticed is there is no distinguishing between
Epsons Durabrite and Durabrite Ultra.

I have not hesitated using the one type in an Ultra printer,
as I believe the only difference is the drying time.

www.inksupply.com has a few different sizes of ink, but so far I have
noticed (at least for my printers and a couple of friends Canon printers) a
constant $10 per 4oz (100ml) bottle.

This is a good idea. It keeps you ink levels so high that you never have to worry about watching the ink levels. It is true that the cost of inks are more expensive than the printers some times. The market of printers is primarily concerned with three things, inks, papers, and printers. This makes sense because it is these things that attribute to the final output. I can see why some would rather buy a new printer, but this is absurd and the thought of people just getting new printers when their ink runs out is just as absurd.

The benefit of continuous ink system is quite obvious, but I question its capabilities for the person who seeks quality over quantity. Dye inks are still widely used today. So think about this, the printer companies have a business model that offers consumers an affordable printer with semi-affordable inks. The dye ink is cheap and they will make the cost of manufacturing the printer back by selling inks and special papers for a higher price. So users are stuck buying expensive inks unless they purchase generic cartridges, refill kits, or continuous ink systems to help save some cash. Sounds like a reasonable theory, wouldn't you say?

These alternatives are great for people who want to get the best bang for their buck. Really good quality and with low costs from buying in bulk. However, for those who have spent the moolah on a more expensive printer, these alternatives are not feasible. You have said that the availability of archival inks is quite low; that is probably true. However, your article does not acknowledge the people who demand the type of quality that a low to mid range dye-based ink-jet cannot offer.

High-range printers offer more control over how the output is processed, which in turn saves ink and increases quality. Though the "archival inks" are far more expensive in contrast to dye-based inks, more than likely the printers that use them are expensive too. This may not necessarily mean that the printers engineering is top-notch, (for that would be absurd for me to say that more expensive things are better), but in all truth, a person typically gets what they pay for. The Epson Stylus 4800 Pro offers 110ml and 220ml cartridges. You will not find these inks for $10, but what you sacrifice in price you gain in quality. From my own observations, the Stylus 4800 Pro's ink cartridges lasted approximately 3-5 months in a low-medium use (college) setting. The ink usage was not consistent, especially for a printer that has 8 different inks. Some prints may have higher levels certain colors --- so it makes sense that some inks would be used faster than others. This is up to the user to fix, not the printer.

What ink usage boils down to is the experience of the user, the type of paper being used, and the equipment being used. Sure you can buy a large reservoir to hold inks, but it does not attempt to answer "WHY DOES THIS PRINTER USE SO MUCH INK?" If your car used more gas than usual, would you simply buy a bigger gas tank? More than likely, you would try to locate the problem. Maybe it was something you did? Maybe something is wrong with the car? Maybe I need a better car?

A professional photographer acquaintance of mine says that Epson manufactures CIS systems and markets them in Germany. He told me that you can walk into a print shop similar to a Kinko's Copies (here in Toronto) and not just have the use of photo copiers but the use of quality ink jet printers as well. He says there are large bottles of ink on the walls providing the printers via an array of tubing. He asked about this and found out that it is genuine Epson ink and that the system was provided by Epson. He inquired directly with Epson, and was told that the existence of such systems would be denied here in North America. How is that for a kick in the teeth. I will go on record and stand trial for slurring the name of Epson for robbing the people of hard earned money by selling the ink cartridges at ridiculously high profit margin and great ecological irresponsibility by not providing an alternative.

Shame on you Epson.

As for the last post "why does the printer use so much ink?" There is an answer (aside from the obvious,a big photo quality print needs a lot of ink)- Its called ICC profiles. The printer companies try their best to provide profiles for the different types of paper (plain, bright, glossy, matte etc.) but this only goes so far. Like a car, we can improve "millage or gas usage" by using engine additives, better tires or controlling speeding. With a profile, you can tell the printer EXACTLY the right amount of ink to use on a certain type of paper to get the ultimate print. These profiles can save money by cutting down on ink usage substantially. However like additives or high performance tires, these profiles are costly. In the mean time, if you are going to drive, you need to buy gas. What station do you shop at?

I have been using a CIS on my Epson 1270 since I bought the printer new in 04. The printer has printed well in excess of 2,000 images and aside from a few failures, most have been sucessful. Even after the 2 year old decided to unplug poppa's ink tubes (dont ask about the floor). I got mine from inkjetart.com and I have to refill the bottles once although they are getting near a refill again. Nowdays, they have pigment based CIS systems which I would probably look at for any new printer. Mine is dye based and the MIS dye has been very good in matching and life time fading. But then I coat all my good prints for any dye based ink. I did a run of several hundred prints for my oldest daughter when she got back from France and was the "starving teenager". Between the microcoated paper and the CIS, her prints ran about .04 (FOUR CENTS) each. Yah, she spent some time cutting them up but it was alot cheaper than paying any website to print them.

I have my 1 epson r200 printer from nearly 3 years ago on the same CIS. and i printed nearly 12,000 pages from it and it works like the day i bought it. I get higher quality ink from a guy down the road 8 bucks per 100ml the colors are so much richer and the smell could knock you out it is so strong. but people look at the pics and can't believe i printed them on my printer and that it was cheaper then anywhere else

Hi,

I just bought the CIS from asc365. I am finding the colours are not quite right based on their recommended settings. What settings are you using to print on Epson Glossy Paper?

Thanks

HP999

I to have been circumventing the ink cartridge problems since the early HP black and white Deskjet days. I started my early work on the CIS systems back in late 2005. I originally ordered a sample system for a Epson C86 from a Japanese wholesaler to test and see how the system worked. There were problems with connections, tubing, and mostly the quality of the ink that was supplied with the system. I have continued to work with the CIS (continuous ink system) over the years till now and have been rewarded with an excellent system with no functional problems and excellent ink. I use both a cheap Epson (C88) and a mid range (R260). The system that I use (CIS) comes from Kyson (kyson.yangportal.com) because I can depend on its quality and mostly because of the quality of the ink that is supplied both with the unit and which can be ordered separately. I have used the C88 for over 18 months and it has never clogged or given me any problems whatsoever. The R260 (six color CIS) has been in operation almost 12 months, again with absolutely no problems. I use the dye ink, not the pigmented, since I am not interested in long term storage as relates to color. I do extensive printing of software manuals which I read at my leasure and also keep handy for reference. (use a software package called Clickbooks which allows me to print nice manuals on all sides of the paper and saves space, paper, and ink) I am pretty sure that all the Big Three Printer manufacturers (Epson, Canon, HP) all manufacture their ink tolerances such that they produce good results, but at the same time necessitate that the print head constantly purge and clear/clean themselves, this of course wastes much of the small quantity of ink that you pay so much for in the individual or combination cartridges. It is a very lucrative business for them. However with my current system, I have noticed almost nonexistant purging and or cleaning of the heads and excellent printout even after extended periods of nonuse of the printer. I believe the CIS systems also work better on the Epson printers and not so well on the HP and Lexmark. The main difference is that the cartridge for the Epson has a shutoff valve which is not activated until the cartridge is loaded into the printer, and this controls better the flow of ink overall than say the HP type which has the printhead in the cartridge. This however is just my point of view. I have never had good luck with HP and a CIS system over time. Cost of a simple system is well under $200 and pays for itself in about 2 cartridge refills for all colors or less. Cost of Epson C88 $49.00 plus $67.00 for CIS system. The R260 or C120 cost are slightly higher. Need help or suggestions call 317-536-8127 on your dime and I will be glad to help or advise. gwooster@comcast.net

We ordered a CIS for our Canon Pixma 4500 printer. Installed it, printed a few prints, printed nicely. Went home for the evening. Came back to work the next day, the pigment black tank was only half full while the other tanks remained full. The black ink leaked out into the bottom of our printer. Thought it was a cracked cartridge. The company we ordered from sent a new cartridge. Upon waiting for the new cartridge, we covered the cartridges with the hard plastic cases they came in. The pigment black ink never stopped flowing. The tank is almost empty now and the ink is all over the box it came in. Still no problems with the other cartridges. Noticed that the black ink tube is solid black with no air bubbles in it. The others have air bubbles in them. Whick is normal? Now we have to change the black cartridges out, but what if the ink doesn't stop flowing? I can't easily get in touch with the company that we bought this system from. Can anyone help me with this?
Thanks,
Blake

Can you tell me if I can use a cis with epson d92 and how to install please?

Replacing in cartridges is still cheaper on the long run and saves the environment too.

i have bought a ciss for the epson d92 it is filled with pigment ink can i add dye ink to this without any bad reactions in my printing

I love having the CIS because it saves so much money on ink and I don't have boxes of the empty cartridges to deal with, but I have some problems. First of all I get a message that says the ink cartridges are not recognized and I have to fool around taking them out and putting them back in several times to get it to come off of that error message and start working again. Maybe there is something else I should be doing but I don't know what it is.
I also have the problem of the ribbon hanging into my prints and leaving a little trail of scratches. I have a barely perceptible amount of play in my ribbon. If it's too taut it makes a horrible chattering noise and can kick it into the ink cartridges not recognized message. Or if it's too loose the carriage for the cartridges have gotten caught on the ribbon with the same horrible noise and error message. Right now I have to stand at the printer and every time it pulls taut at the farthest end I pull the ribbon up a little so it doesn't hang down in my print. I have to do this several times during printing. I'm not happy with this at all. Does anyone else have these problems?? Help!!

i to have a problem with ink cartridges not recognised, i have a epson stylus rx585 and when the cartridges are empty it will not reset i have to go through a change cartride procedure twice to correct the fault. but despite this i believe that this is one of the best things i have ever bought there is no comparison in the price difference the inital outlay is quite steep but the price per print after is unreal i recon i paid for my system in 4 weeks and i am only a light to medium printer user they are weel worth the money if you change your cartridges two to three times per year

I bought a CIS system for my EPSON 1280 but lost my nerve and have never used it. Following that I bought an Epson R1800...great machine but eight color ink was killing me. Finally I bought and installed a CIS system with pigment ink on the 1800. Results are utterly fantastic. cost of ink is a fraction of Epson inks.

Buying bulk ink and having a continuous supply of ink for your cartridges is the way to print. I am sure the pictures you printed and show above do not vary in any way with printing with original ink from Epson, at least to the human eye.
First, CIS is cheaper and it saves you money.
Second, you are not throwing away the plastic cartridges.
Why doesn't Epson make a CIS?

When you buy a new inkjet printer remember the ink cartridges’ that come with the machine are not full.
Also Epson printer leaves about 25% ink in the cartridge when it tells you to change/empty there is software available to rectify this problem, Google “SSC Service Utility”
At the moment I am ditching my Epson R200 which I have problems with when using Adobe Photoshop CS4 the prints are always dark ,one way round this is to re-edit in Picasa 3 and print but it not really good enough so I am in the process of changing to a Canon Pixma iP4700 with CIS
PS I am no expert
Alfuk
England

I was reading your article.  I would be interested in who made the CIS system you

show you used on your Epson 200.  I have an Epson R2400 and the baffling system

in the tanks that you show are different than I have seen before.  Any info would be apprecialted.

I tried the CIS and it was a great mess. ... the top of the cart. keep leaking ink and making a big mess.

My idea behind buying two printers and leaving one in the box is that, as you've pointed out they have been made to be disposable. They are cheaply made with flimsy plastics and basically have a warranty plus a day or two average lifespan.

They can't really be repaired, when you take them to the service center the guys there will just say, it's cheaper to buy a new one.... Well, what I did was anticipate that the CISS would last longer than the printer, because it hasn't got any moving parts in it.

Also, the models of printers are only available in a short time window, after which they are replaced by the same type of printer, which doesn't use the same cartridges. Again, this is a ploy by the manufacturer's to make people's old cartridge stocks not work in the later printer models.

Anyways, my first printer is still going strong, after two years full on use and I still have a backup in it's box, waiting for the day when number 1 gets retired :-)

It's such a shame that manufacturers haven't caught on to the idea of providing this as an add-on for the printer - I mean an OEM endorsed upgrade and not a third-party extra.

I think that CISS is too complicated for the average user, but imagine if you could buy a large cartridge (like the size of a car battery or something) full of ink which came from the manufacturer. You could plug it right into your printer and it would just work.

I guess the big printer manufacturers are making too much money selling ink 5ml at a time!

I'm an IT manager in the print industry.  Never used Epson until last year.  Always used HP, but there was a good deal so.... I bought an epson R280 (I think - something like that).  Had a few niggles with it from day 1.  Bought a CIS kit from the guy on eBay for £45 or thereabouts and it worked fine for several months but I did find that the printer kept complaining that the cartridges were not compatible or were empty so I'd have to re-seat them and then the yellow would go out of register - only the yellow mind - and I'd spend ages trying to get it back again and use loads of paper.  Then after a 3-week break of not using it, the yellow nozzle blocked.  tried a few things - isopropyl-alcohol to clean it out, but no.. T'internet said you have to remove the heads.  Have you ever tried removing the heads on an Epson?  Having dismantled the printer and STILL been unable to gte the heads out I gave up.  The printer was binned.  Wish I'd stuck with what I know and bought an HP.  Never had one go wrong yet.  I have a DJ 5940 sat next to me that works solidly all day without a problem and I have an old 4050 workhorse that has never let me down.  We also have a couple of new Canon Pixma MP560s which I'm quite impressed with - particulatly as the heads and the cradle are plug-in items and you can remove them in seconds!

I purchased an Epson P50 with a continuous ink system yesterday, great pictures. Then I had a message that tells me the Black Ink Cartridge in the printer is not recognised. The SCC Service Utility does not offer a fix for this make of Epson printers.

I let the ink dry and now that I have refilled the containers the black and yellow ink do not want to flow.  What should I do?

It looks like your cost-per-page estimates are off by a factor of 100. I suspect that when you wrote .30¢ you meant 30¢ or $0.30 (30 cents rather than three tenths of one cent).

Hi Phil. No, the actual cost per print including quality photo paper is infact close to .30¢ (CAD) per full 8.5" x 11" photo print. The paper alone is .15¢ and the ink between .05¢ and .08¢ (plus tax) bringing the total to @.30¢. Of course, it depends on how much colour, the quality of print etc. My calculations are not exact as a result, but I have monitored about 350-400 full colour full page photos per 100ml (of exch colour) of this ink.

Cheers... Rudi on Toronto.

Hi, I recently Purchased R230X printer, and now it's ink and paper lights blinks continuously. What's the problem may be?